ALASKA NATIVES COMMISSION
JOINT FEDERAL-STATE COMMISSION
ON
POLICIES AND PROGRAMS AFFECTING
ALASKA NATIVES
4000 Old Seward Highway, Suite 100
Anchorage,
Alaska 99503
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Witness List | Exhibit
List
| PDF Version
ALASKA NATIVES COMMISSION
HEARING
Nome, ALASKA
SEPTEMBER 21, 1992
Tina Henderson
(On record at 4:22 p.m.)
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT:
Now on record, and it is 4:22. Tina, if you would then now, for
the record, give us your name and where
you' re from, and then please begin to speak as freely as you
wish.
MS. HENDERSON: Okay, my name is Tina Henderson.
I was born and raised here in Nome. I currently hold the position
with
Kawerak,
Incorporated, the Native regional nonprofit -- I hold the position
at Kawerak as their Indian Child Welfare Act Liaison. And a part
of my job is to advocate for children, families) and tribes in
state court proceedings; and I also am responsible for providing
adoption services under Kawerak's adoption agency. And I've taken
on this responsibility for now over two years. I travel quite
frequently to the village communities here in the Bering Straits
Region, and have a found a couple of things that are points of
concern regarding children and families in general throughout
the region, one being the state of the Child Support Enforcement
Division's requirements to seek reimbursement from absent spouses
through AFDC, the welfare system.
I have found in my work that
sometimes this -- the CSED requirements actually, split up families,
where, through the tribal adoption
process to change birth certificates at the Bureau of Vital Statistics
in Juneau, new parents will decide not to name a father on a
birth certificate if they are on AFDC, so the father will not
be responsible for large amounts of money to be reimbursed back
into the State. So what happens with the Native families is that
when they choose not to name the father on the birth certificate
because of AFDC, that child loses half of his heritage. He's
only considered one-half Eskimo, or one-half Native, whether
he is full Native or not, because there is an absent parent on
the -- not named on the birth certificate; and that concerns
me.
I had always been under the assumption that the
welfare system provided what could not be provided, because of
economic hardship;
and it just doesn't seem to work. I know a lot of families and
a lot of young men that have bills and statements from CSED,
ranging from $34,000 to $62,000 that they are in arrears for;
and these young men do not have jobs because of the economic
situation at the village level. I suppose this issue raises many
issues regarding families, their economic financial states. I
don't believe the -- this system works in the Native community.
They are very rigid in the reimbursement for the amounts that
are collected through AFDC.
I think, as part of a problem solver,
one that has always come to mind is that I've seen young men
who, although they are not
providing any monetary support to the families, that they will
go hunting and get a moose, or a seal, and provide it to the
family, and that is not taken into consideration as any type
of payment. I believe that if they -- if a lot of these young
men had the opportunity to provide some type of in-kind donation
to eliminate a portion of their child support payments, that
they would be able to do that; but it's not anything that CSED
will take into consideration at this time.
I realize that you're
here for possible solutions to many problems, and I've asked
different families what they do in the absence
of jobs, of any type of income to reimburse the State, and they
do nothing.
I believe another solution could be that if there
was an advocate to tell these many, many young men in our communities
that if
they approach their caseworkers or managers, that something could
be worked out; but they are so afraid of this whole system, because
it's very foreign; and they're afraid that -- because they don’t
have the money to pay the State back. I think there needs to
be some type of service for, or some individual -- a person for
these people to see, that they can see, or speak to, or write
to, at least regionally. I know the only offices that exist are
in Juneau, Anchorage, and Fairbanks. And even those offices when
you call them, you get a recording. They don't speak with human
beings until they've called several times; and that's -- that
has been one of the points of concern that I have heard from
several different young men throughout our communities. And I'm
in great hopes that the despair that these young men have could
soon be helped, because they've ri -- at this point in time,
I know many, many who just do nothing; and while they're not
doing anything, their bills are accumulating. I have sat with
young men that are ready to commit suicide, because they don't
have a solution to this big bill.
I fully understand, and I think
this Commission also understands that there is a problem without
jobs in the Bush villages. There
are very few people employed year around, and it seems to be
mainly the young men that are unemployed. At this point in
time, I know several that just don't work at all, because it
behooves
them to work, because the State will take all of their money.
That seems to be a cry that really nobody has answers for at
this point. I fully understand that it is federal law, and,
of course, a state law; but I think there could -- they could
take
into consideration the lifestyles of the Native peoples here
in Alaska, or throughout the United States. I certainly hope
one day that some of the issues that I've pointed out can be
resolved, where it's not creating more hardship on already
compounded problems, just for basic survival in the Native communities.
Through my position as the Indian Child Welfare
Act Liaison at Kawerak, I have -- I certainly hope that the --
there will
be
more people, such as I, at the village levels to advocate
for children, families, and tribes in the future. I fully understand
that the federal government has increased programs through
the state -- Indian Child Welfare programs throughout the
state;
and, hopefully, we'll see a better and brighter future through
our children. I believe that our programs and services that
are
provided to the Native communities need to be prioritized;
and, as a priority, the programs that are implemented should
involve
children as a priority. They are our future. We will depend
on them; that I believe subsistence and land issues are important
also; but, as a priority, our future depends on our children
and healthy lifestyles; that we should fully support the
sobriety movement from the AFN, and not just say we support it,
but
let's
do it. Through healthy people and healthy children, I think
our Native communities will have a better chance of being
around for another ten generations; and that's all I have to
say.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Thank you, Tina. Tina, I'm
just going to ask a couple of questions for clarification.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: One,
when you refer to children's father not being listed on the
birth certificate, --
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: -- are these necessarily unmarried couples, or is
it true of married couples as well?
MS. HENDERSON: They are unmarried
couples. All of the birth certificates that I've assisted with
the -- they
have been
unmarried couples.
There is some legal format, legal language, stating
that if a woman is married that she must name
her spouse on
a birth
certificate,
whether that spouse is the biological father
of the child or not.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Thank you for that clarification. Since you're working
with children,
I'm going
to ask you a question that I asked another
person earlier, and that is what are the affects of
-- you mentioned
alcoholism.
What is the -- what are your views on the fatal
-- the fetal alcohol syndrome?
MS. HENDERSON:
I think there needs to be more qualified medical personnel
that have the qualifications
to diagnosis fetal
alcohol effects and fetal alcohol syndrome.
I don't
believe that all
of the children that are affected by alcohol
in the fetus are being counted. I think the
numbers are
very, very
low.
COMMISSIONER
ELLIOTT: You mean, the real nu --
MS. HENDERSON:
The --
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: -- the reported number
is low?
MS. HENDERSON: The reported
numbers of FAE, fetal alcohol effect, are very
low.
They're
inconsistent
with the
children that have
actually been affected by alcohol
in the fetus in the Native communities.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT:
Again --
REPORTER: Off record.
(Tape changed to Tape #6.)
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT:
Again, because we are seeking solutions, and
this is a difficult
question to
answer I'm sure,
what do you think can be
done about alcohol in the villages?
MS. HENDERSON: I think there
are individuals that are
choosing sobriety
as a lifestyle
and that these
individuals
need
full support to continue
sobriety; and I don't really think there
is an outside program that's
going to assist in any
of the problems
that are
in the
Native communities.
I absolutely
believe that
the Native people need
to recognize and become responsible
for their own problems,
as individuals, as a community; and
these
same individuals and the
same communities need to come up
with their own
solutions, because
they're -- historically,
there
have been -- there has
been a lot of money pumped into services.
An
individual will come into
either Nome or into the village communities
maybe
for
one or two
years,
and
they're
gone. So all of a sudden
the people are thinking
then they
don't have any more solutions,
because that
professional is gone.
I think
the problems
in the Native, communities
today need -- and the solutions need
to come
from the Native people
themselves.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Are
you aware of any Spirit
Camps, such as they
have in
the Interior?
MS. HENDERSON:
Not in this region, I'm unaware
of
the Native Spirit
Camps.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: That, you know, is
for the treatment
of
persons suffering
from alcoholism.
MS. HENDERSON: Right. I think there are
other afflictions
in our communities,
and not just
alcohol, but especially
for children,
there are high
rates of problems
stemming from gas
sniffing
is another problem
in the communities,
because
most of
all ou --
most of our village
communities are
dry. They're not allowed
to
have alcohol. There
are other things that people
find
to get high on.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Yeah.
MS. HENDERSON: And
young children choose gas, because it's available. And people
make their own home brew.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Not mentioning the name of the village, but I do know of one
in this area that is
also very badly affected with both cocaine and marijuana.
MS. HENDERSON: Right. There are many things, I suppose, that an individual
can become addicted to. There are other problems
coming from gambling, and it's legal. It's legal in the Native
communities; but, like I said, with these -- there are some types
of problems stemming from affliction and addiction that the community
needs to recognize it as a problem, prioritize it, and make a
decision based on what they're experiencing in a community.
There
are many communities where families are receiving AFDC checks,
but they're spending them at the bingo halls or at the
pull tab places, so at those places, each -- I believe each and
every individual community needs to make the -- make a decision
whether they are going to continue that type of activity or not.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Do you think the tribal --
some type of tribal government would assist in this matter?
MS. HENDERSON: Ab --
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: We're interested in governance.
That's why I ask you that.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Absolutely. There -- I work directly with the tribes -- 20 tribes
here in the Bering
Straits Region, and -- regarding the Indian Child Welfare Act,
and asserting their rights in state courts -- state court proceedings;
and I believe it's time for a change. You know, you get sick
and tired. This -- I hear this all the time. You're sick and
tired. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. We want to
see something done. But that's all that's said. We're the ones
that have to do it; that does -- the Native community has to
become unified against the problems that we face, and come up
with our own solutions; and that's what I tell people in the
villages. It's their problem; take ownership of it; and you come
up with your own solution; and I guess that’s -- the villages
here in this region are very diverse in their peoples and their
problems.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Well that, as you know, I
hope, is the real purpose of this Commission. It's not to impose
solutions.
It's not to even try and find solutions outside of those which
the Native people themselves can propose, evaluate, act on, and
so on.
MS. HENDERSON: Definitely, that in the creation
of solutions and programs to come up with these solutions, I'm
certainly hoping
that the goal wouldn't be too far to reach, so we don't set up
-- set ourselves up for failure.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Uh-huh
(affirmative).
MS. HENDERSON: Of course, in taking on the responsibilities
of our problems in our Native communities that that's, I guess,
the only fear that we have is fear itself, at this point. There
hasn't been - - there haven't been very many solutions that have
totally fixed problems in the past; and I suppose it's time for
a great change, for the people to come up with their own solutions
to their own problems.
MR. IRWIN: Can -- I have a question. Going
back specifically to the Indian Child Welfare Act, you know,
it's been -- what?
-- 14 years now, I think, since it was first passed by Congress;
and at least the way I have -- I've always understood it is there
were two key goals to be achieved by that. One was to try and
reverse the ages old trend of chil -- Native children going either
into foster and/or into adoptive homes that were not of their
own culture -- mainly going into White America. And then, second
of all, to bring the villages, through the tribal government,
into that decision-making process, and empowering communities
in that way.
Do you think that we're even close to having achieved
either of those; and, if not, it -- and then, I guess, the second
part
to it -- that kind of gives my own feeling on it, which is I
don't think we've come that close. How is the State -- how does
the State factor in? And I know when I worked in that area, 10,
12 years ago, that was the real difficulty that we had was foster
care is controlled by the State, --
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
MR. IRWIN:
-- mainly because they control the purse strings where foster
care is involved. They control adoptions, because adoptions
go through the State Court System; and, thirdly, they're the
ones in power to be doing (indiscernible) foster home licensing
and that type of thing; and we -- I always was of the opinion
that the State government itself was a big, big part of the problem;
and do you feel that that has changed at all?
MS. HENDERSON:
They have been -- I guess in the past couple of years, they've
managed to have a relationship with the State
officials as a tribal representation. When a child from this
region is taken into State's custody, the tribes in this region
have come up with a tribal policy regarding children, where they
have stated that they will always intervene; and that's where
our staff comes in. We intervene on behalf of the tribes. And,
I guess, for the 20 tribes in this region, we have participated
in all hearings, have intervened on behalf of all children that
have been taken into custody -- not just in the state of Alaska,
but outside the state of Alaska.
So, like I said, I've been in
this position for over two years, and Kawerak has maintained
an Indian Child Welfare program for
the past eight years. So there is a solid program here regionally
for the tribes and in our region. But statewide throughout the
state of Alaska, I have found that other tribes do not have tribal
law or policy to go on. When it comes to a child that is taken
into custody -- a Native child -- when that Native child is taken
into custody, there isn't the contact persons, there -- they
that some people don't fully understand their rights -- tribal
rights in the proceedings, and how to go about advocating for
the tribe. But I have found in the past couple of years, working
in this position, that the relationship -- it's been a difficult
one in several different areas, several different places; and
I think this past year has even been more difficult working with
the Division of Family and Youth Services, because of all of
the changes within the State regarding budgets, and cutbacks,
and a change in the whole DFYS system throughout the state; where
I think it's a real key time for State -- the State of Alaska
and tribes to work together, because while the State of Alaska
is cutting their funding for the -- a lot of their programs and
services, where the State is making cutbacks, there is an increase
in federal funding for Indian Child Welfare programs. And I think
if we can work together, and maintain that children are a priority,
I think we'd both be better off. That's -- that sounds really
big, and it isn't working quite that way yet throughout the state;
but here in this region, we do have a -- we have a good relationship
with our court system, our local court system, and within the
State Court System in the Anchorage area, where a bulk of our
caseload is. So it -- I guess it can happen. That relationship
can be enhanced; it can happen; but it takes commitment, and
patience, and a lot of work.
MR. IRWIN: Probably a lot of diligence,
too; I mean, staying on top of it, I would assume, has a lot
to do with it. Just persistently
being there and making sure that the State understands that,
in fact, as a Native community, you are interested in what happens
to those children.
MS. HENDERSON: They know that. When we're
- - when we become involved -- at this point, when a child is
taken into custody
in the Anchorage area, they know that if they're from a village
here in this region, they know to contact our office. So it's
-- I guess it's -- it has worked out for us. Our relationship
with the State officials, State workers, has worked out.
MR. IRWIN: How about in the area of actual licensed Native foster
houses, like a child, let's say, taken into custody in this region.
What are -- what's the likelihood that he or she will wind up
-- if they are to wind up in a foster home, what's the likelihood
of them being able to be placed in a Native foster home?
MS. HENDERSON: That always occurs. If it --
MR. IRWIN: So there are
enough Native foster homes?
MS. HENDERSON: There are not enough
licensed, but it's usually a relative that will take a child
in and become licensed, --
MR. IRWIN: Okay.
MS. HENDERSON: -- or an extended
family member. There have been very few situations -- there have
been isolated situations where
a child is not in a -- is in a Native -- a non-Native foster
home, because he or she has medical problems, and --
MR. IRWIN:
Special needs.
MS. HENDERSON: Special needs, exactly. But in
the absence of tribes being responsible to license foster homes,
are the tribes
-- some tribes in this region have a code or an ordinance --
codes and ordinances regarding the foster-care home-- licensing
process. And we are in the process this year through our program
to come up with an application, and whether the State of Alaska
recognizes tribes or not, that we will come up with a standard
application for tribal members to become tribally-licensed foster
homes.
MR. IRWIN: Well, I think that that would be --
it would be excellent if the final step in that is where the
tribes are
working closely
enough to where -- with the State to where the State will accept
that tribal licensing and thereby pay -- make the -- why -- just
have him:
"If you guys have licensed, that' s good
enough for us, and we'll state it -- and we'll say that, you
know, so
it meets requirements
of the State licensing."
Because that was one of the things
that I really found back in the late 70s and early 80s was, first
of all, the State didn't
know how to get foster -- Native foster homes licensed.
MS. HENDERSON:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
MR. IRWIN: (Laughing.) You know, they didn’t
know to get out there into the communities and find good people;
and also,
back then, although I could see that it was -- the easiest thing
is just to put them in a foster home and then we could -- the
detail of getting the thing licensed after the fact, you know,
that can be handled. And I’m glad to see that that process
is in place; but I guess the very next step is to where the State
and the tribes are working close enough together to where the
State recognizes that the tribes have their act well enough together
to have standards for licensing that can meet the requirements
of the State, so that ultimately the tribes can just take over
that function almost --
MS. HENDERSON: Right.
MR. IRWIN: -- completely,
and the State being more just an adjunct to the process, rather
than the driver of the vehicle
as they
have been in the past.
MS. HENDERSON: There are actually
-- some tribes here in this region have higher standards than
the State in regards
to adoption;
and that's really nice to see. I'm really proud of 'em,
the bribes that have passed their children's codes and ordinances;
and regardless
of what standard the State has, they've -- it's not that
they've lowered their standards, their standards are higher
in the
placement of their tribal- member children; because they
absolutely do
believe that their children are mo -- their most valuable
resource, and they will be responsible for that protection
of that Native
spirit, and the Native family, and the Native community.
Do you have any other questions, or. . .
(Laughing.)
MR. IRWIN: That's all mine.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT:
I do -- -we do thank you very much.
MS. HENDERSON: Oh, you're
welcome. I had understood that there was a State House Joint
Resolution that was passed
by Se --
Representative Eileen Maclean, regarding the Indian
Child Welfare Act, and --
with respect to studying the Act. And I think, throughout
the state, our organization and the tribes in this
region were
the only folks that opposed the detailed studying
of the Indian Child
Welfare Act; but instead of studying the Indian Child
Welfare Act, maybe they ought to do a more comprehensive
evaluation of the State's child protection system, that the
Indian
Child Welfare
Act was -- came about to protect the Natives across
the nation, through our children; and I don't think that
it
is any time
-- ox this is not the time to especially change what
right we have
left through our children; that I absolutely believe
that Native people across the nation have never been accused
of failing
to compromise; that when it comes to our children,
we won't
compromise
no more. And by not compromising any more, we assist
in the drafting of tribal laws; and that's real important
that there's
State law, federal law. What about tribal law? Those
are priorities these days through our office.
MR. IRWIN: I'm familiar with the joint resolution
you were talking about, and then -- and I believe it was more
-- if I recall correctly,
it was
more aimed
at examining whether or not the state has lived
up to its part
of the responsibility
for widespread implementation of the -- basically
the intent of the Indian Child Welfare Act, and
that's where my --
in fact, my earlier question came from is whether
or
not, you
know --
or how, if at all, things have changed to where,
you know, is the State -- see they used to be uncooperative
for many,
many
years in implementing that; but I have sensed that
they've loosened up quite a bit; and once they've
seen
that,
hey, these Natives
out here, they, you know, they seem to have a good
sense about what needs to be done, you know, generally,
where
it comes
to their children, and maybe we don't have to be
so fearful that
if we --
MS. HENDERSON: Right.
MR. IRWIN: -- let them have
a part of the decision--
MS. HENDERSON: I guess --
MR. IRWIN: -- making
action, you know, the world's not going to fall apart here.
MS. HENDERSON: I guess that' s a -- where maybe
another misconception has arised,
when the
tribes in Alaska
are involved in the
screening process for children's placements,
that I think a misconception
is that the standards are lowered because
the -- a Native organization or the Native
tribe
is involved.
And that
is so totally untrue
that -- and that's why I say that there
are tribes in this region that have higher standards
than
the State
does at
this time.
And I think, at this time, they really
need our help; and if we can work together, I
think we'd
all be
better
off,
and especially
our children would be better off.
And
with this Child Support Enforcement Division stuff, it's --
it doesn't even
make sense
that -- it doesn't
make sense
to me how decisions are arrived, or
how amounts are arrived -- where
they arrive at amounts, or how they
arrive at their decisions is beyond me; and
I always thought
I
was a little bit
intelligent to figure things out. I
haven't been able to do that yet.
(Laughter.)
MR. IRWIN: Well, I think the thing
with Child Enforcement, too, is they're
so
much more
-- they're concerned
with revenues. They're
within the Department of Revenue,
and I don't think they tend to look at
what they're
doing
where it's
social
--
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
MR. IRWIN:
-- policy implications.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative).
MR. IRWIN:
You see that also in situations of child support, and in divorce
proceedings, and
how they
go after them.
Even if it's not in the best
interest of the family for them to
be doing what they're doing
the way they're doing it, it doesn't seem
to much matter,
as it's the
whole drive
to
get that revenue
back.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh
(affirmative).
MR. IRWIN: And a similar
situation that Native
people a lot of
times were finding
themselves
in was where,
for
all intensive
purposes, a traditional
Native adoption had taken place.
For instance, the
grandparents raising
a child.
MS. HENDERSON:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
MR. IRWIN: And although
no formal State court
proceeding had ever
taken place
severing the parental
Lies and granting
an adoption to the
grandparents
or
anything, it
is in
effect an adoption.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative].
MR. IRWIN:
And -- but the biological
mother,
for
instance, or
-- and/or the biological
father would
find themselves
in the
same situation
if grandma went down
and applied
and got AFDC,
then the
biological
parent
would start
getting hit.
And one of the things
that
the Cowper Administration
did -- was
able to
do was to --
is to change
their policies
and their approach
to things, to
make tribal --
traditional tribal
adoptions much
easier to, in fact, effectuate;
and effectuate
them without
the State courts
ever having to
become involved.
Thereby,
the
main reason
for that was
in order for grandma
to be able to
take care of her child,
who was,
you know
-- maybe
not
her biological
child,
but the child
that she's raising without
her daughter
or son having
to have ultimate
responsibility
for it. Just
as happens
in Western society,
somebody severs
a relationship;
the child
goes
to the adoptive
parents.
If the adoptive
parents have
to apply for
AFDC, that
biological parent
isn't hit with
the bill with that; and
so it was to
try to bring
-- and to try to recognize
that there
are different
ways of
adoptions taking
place. And
maybe something
along those lines, you
know,
could
happen in the
future with respect
to
the issue that
you raised,
and being
that the -- you
know, the biological father
basically
not being able
even to be a
part of their
child's life in any
way, because
they' re scared
of the consequences
that will
rise from that.
MS. HENDERSON:
This region has
been fully
aware
of the traditional
tribal-adoption
process
since the
regulation
was passed in April
1990; and.
the tribes
in this region
have all of
the forms.
We xerox the forms
at Kawerak
and provide
them to the
tribes and
the families
throughout
the region; and
I'll have
to say it's
- - it has
been a godsend for
families. It's
very simple;
it's
economically
feasible; and
they
don't have
to travel to a State
court to adopt
a
child. That's
been one of
the better
things that have
happened
in the
Native
community
probably for
two generations.
MR. IRWIN: Good
to hear
you say
that,
because
I worked
for Governor
Cowper,
and I --
MS. HENDERSON: Yeah.
MR. IRWIN:
-- put
a lot of
time
and sweat
into
that.
MS. HENDERSON: Did you?
MR. IRWIN:
Yeah.
MS. HENDERSON:
Yeah?
MR. IRWIN:
And I
think that
also your
suggestion about,
you know,
there being
(indiscernible -
away from
microphone and
papers rattling)
father' s
credit for
traditional ways
of helping
out.
MS. HENDERSON: Right.
MR. IRWIN: Yeah,
maybe he's
not able
to supply
$364 in
a check
or cash
each month;
but --
and making
that the
only requirement
of the
only way
that he
can become
involved, I
think ignores
a lot
of the
traditional Native ways of community and family helping, and
responsibility
for ones
own.
MS. HENDERSON: Uh-huh (affirmative). Hopefully
--
MR. IRWIN: Although there are some deadbeats out
there; but --
MS. HENDERSON: Yes.
MR. IRWIN: -- there's -- those
who, you know, legitimately are trying to make it.
MS. HENDERSON:
I mean, I've read it in our headline news in our -- in the
Anchorage newspaper where, I mean, they even
named
one of the individuals that owes $62,000 here in one of
our villages in this region. And so by naming this individual
and shaming
him through the press, is this supposed to make him come
up with the $62,000? Come on, you know, they -- I mean, and
they've
publicly
called him a deadbeat and everything, and they don't even
know the guy, you know. They don't know that there is --
there
aren't
any jobs in his village. They are in -- and if there were,
and he were hired on, he probably wouldn't even take the
position, because they'd be taking half of his money; that
it's not --
but at the same time, the same individual, like I said,
would go moose hunting, or get a reindeer, or get a seal, or
fish,
and bring it over to where his child was staying to make
sure that he ate and had the basics. It's not like, you know,
that
they stopped caring for their children because they owe
all of
this money and it's scary. It's really scary out there
with this issue. I think I've only spoken to the tip of the iceberg
for
the young men that are responsible for reimbursement. There
are many, many, many people out there that are too afraid
to even
admit that they're in this dilemma. It's scary. It's really
scary.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Thank you very much.
MS. HENDERSON: Oh, you're welcome.
MR. IRWIN: Is that a wrap?
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Good-bye.
(Off record at 5:06 p.m.)
This document was ocr scanned. We have made every
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including the recorder's original misspellings or typos.
