ALASKA NATIVES COMMISSION
JOINT FEDERAL-STATE COMMISSION
ON
POLICIES AND PROGRAMS AFFECTING
ALASKA NATIVES
4000 Old Seward Highway, Suite 100
Anchorage,
Alaska 99503
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Witness List | PDF
Version
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Let's
see, I'll call Robert Charlie and Barbara Morgan, if they're
here. Robert?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible -- noise.)
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Thank you.
(Pause.)
Robert if you would like to introduce yourself
and -- for the record, and share your ideas with us, we’d appreciate
it very much.
MR. CHARLIE: My name is Robert Charlie,
and I'm from a small community in Alaska that's called Minto,
Alaska, 135 miles west of Fairbanks; and I guess we’re about
the second closest community to Fairbanks -- Native community.
And I'm here on behalf of a non-profit organization in which
I'm the founder and the director of. And this non-profit organization
is a model organization for a Native community to preserve
our Athabascan culture, heritage, and education.
It's been four years since we got recognized by the federal government on a tax-exempt status, and I mentioned that this organization is a role model; and we are doing exactly what I am saying. For a long time, I had wishes of how I could get involved from the community level although I've been a leader and a counselor for many years.
And I finally got enough courage to say I'm going to try to put an organization together and see if it will work. I know there's a lack of this type of organization in each community; it's separate from what village government issues are about. Village Councils are the government body for the village, or the community; but in our case, we're working it toward things we want to preserve.
And one of the main reasons that I formed the organization was that under the Native Land Claims Settlement Act, there was some communities that was abandoned, such as Old Minto that could easily go back into the hands of the people, whether it's true historical site nomination to the National Register or the people themself fighting to get their abandoned community back into their hands. So I did succeed, because Old Minto was abandoned village, and it's moved 20 miles north of the old site. So under the Claims Settlement Act, we couldn't have selected the old site; bat through the regional corporation, they could have went out and help us to select that site; but I guess they had so much work to do. But anyway, that was the reason form the non-profit organization preserve our culture.
And Old Minto is a living site. We have
experience through the four years we've been operating our
camp -- cultural training camp in Old Minto, and we have succeeded
by reaching out and getting kids from other villages to participate
with us and learn about their culture in this old summer camp.
And then for the last couple of years now, we have accepted
Tanana Chiefs offer to run their alcohol treatment camp in
Old Minto; and we have two purpose for the old site; and they’re
very important purposes.
In our summer program in Old Minto, we have one week of cross-cultural orientation, like -- it was a new idea, where students that were going to the University in Fairbanks to take training jobs in the Bush -- I mean, teaching jobs in the Bush, they have a chance to go to this old camp and learn about the Indian culture and talk to the people and get to know how the people speak, and how they act, and live in the same environment for one week. In the same environment, they don't have running water and stuff like that, so they have to have -- eat food that is originally cooked on a campfire, and water that was pumped from a well, and most of all they enjoy using the outhouse, which is (laughing) going back to the basics.
So, this is our third year that we've been running the camp. It's been very successful by comments that we see from teachers that have been through our program. This also is a model program, and I got a lot of inquiries about other areas want to do the same thing -- other communities want to do the same thing.
And then we have another three-week program where we set -- we invite students from other villages that has a problem with being around families that are drinking; being around friends that are using drugs; and our program is to help these kids and educate them about the drug and alcohol program beforehand. And, at the same time I they learn about their culture, they learn how to talk to the elders; and they learn to do cultural things. They make baskets; they pick berries; they make bow and arrows; and they love it out there.
Of course, in detail, if I was to go on to say that this type of program that all the communities just should start up and it'll give a sense to these kids their roots -- some connection to their roots, and make their own decision on how they want to live their lives.
And then we have another one week or two
weeks program, where we get students from the New York area;
and there’s 10 to 12 students that come up every year for last four years and just learn about our culture. They came from an organization called World Horizon. This organization get a bunch of kids signed up there in winter that want to go out and explore and learn about other culture, and they go all over the world. It’s
sort of like a VISTA volunteer-type program. The two and a
half weeks they spend in Old Minto, they help us prepare the
old site for future development, such as cutting trails, cutting
brush, and reestablishing a new cemetery, cutting brush out
of the old cemetery, making crosses and fences around the cemetery.
They do a lot of things, and they' re really glad to do it.
They never had these possibilities out there, so when they
come to Old Minto they really learn a lot, and they participate
as much as they can.
Those are just a few programs we have during
the summer, and the teachers that -- the teachers in our program
is elders. They're very valuable to us in our culture teaching.
Then this is the first year we have got -- we received a grant
for a five-year plan program from the federal government. It’s under the drug and alcohol program-It's called a Community Partnership Fund Program, and it's a program that's going all over the United States; and we're just one of -- I don't know how many -- Community Partnerships nationally; but we’re
one of five communities that got funded in Alaska.
I have always had an open mind to see how we can help the community in Minto. As a leader, you keep your ears open; your eyes open; you think a lot; and you have a vision; and my vision was always open for opportunities. So when I saw the chance to apply for this large sum of money to help our community, especially in the areas of drug and alcohol, not only that, hut it was a chance for the community to start planning their own destiny by self-determination.
And I'm happy to say that although the paperwork
that we have to go through for a year before we start working
with the people in he community, we're about that stage right
now. Right now we're ready to go out into the community and
work with the people; and we want to use them to do their own
planning. It's part of the program. And next month, 6th, 7th,
and 8th, the five communities that are working with the Community
Partnership in Alaska are going to have their workshop in Minto
-- their very first workshop together. So I'm looking forward
to that, and there’ll be about 40 people, plus trainees from
the Lower 48.
And going back to the ideas that I have put together, and the things that we have done in implementing the ideas, I think we need more communities to do this very thing, to start working with their own kids and their own people, utilizing their own people. One other thing I didn't mention is that we have, for the third year now, we've been working with the students in Minto, from kindergarten to high school; and we -- it's state-funded. We work on a daily basis; and just this year, the principal has set aside an hour and a half per day where our elders can come in and have guest speakers to come in and talk to our students. And the last report for last year in our second year, there has been quite an improvement, because of this program we started. The kids in my community really didn't get taught their principals of how they should act around their own family, let alone the school. So they got a -- so the elders and the teachers are beginning to teach these kids discipline; and the results for the last two years has really improved. The kids are attending school better; they're having a -- better parents and all around; and they' re improving every year. In fact, we had five of them down here for the youth conference, and it's sure good to see those kids. Their faces just lit up and everything when they saw me (laughing). So it really make you feel good to see these things happen.
One area of very importance is that very few documents is shown or is around about the Interior Athabascans -- the history of the Athabascan people. Although our Native leaders are elders, they know everything about our life, what happened in their life; but beyond that, earlier than that, we have no family trees. We didn't have any family tree. And that's what we're going to work on in our next program during this winter, during our planning stage, is to develop a family tree for every members in the community and see where our roots begin; and that's the main thing that kids should know is where they came from.
We have kids that are blonde, and kids that are -- seem like they don't have any identity. This will give them a chance to say:
"I am an Athabascan."
This is not directed in my comments; but
I -- it's an issue that's been floating around for the last
ten and more years; and if members of the Commission will accept
this as part of my comments; I'd like to make this directly
to the Commission. I mentioned earlier that we were -- we're
established to preserve our culture and our heritage, and learn
about our history. But one of the things that we're doing is
to preserve the most valuable thing around each community,
is we put together a map we call name and places in Athabascan.
Although it's a draft; we'll need more funds to finalize the
map. I’m
talking about two million acres, with every little lake, little stream, mountains,
trails, all those is going to be identified on this map; all in Athabascan and
in English. I got a lot of encouragement from the state map makers and the --
federal map makers; and it's going to be a map that's -- hopefully, will be duplicated
by other communities, because that's another main source of holding on to your
culture and know where your ancestors traveled, especially the names and the
trails.
Ten years ago -- I think it's 11 years ago
-- Senator Ted Stevens made a big push statewide, and he got
a lot of support through the legislators and the members in
Alaska -- people in Alaska to change the name of McKinley back
to its original name, Denali. But we -- the obstacle we ran
up against at that time was the senator from Ohio didn’t want
to get the name changed, because President McKinley was from
Ohio; and he's still fighting to keep the name on; and I noticed
Senator Stevens is still trying to get the mountain changed
back to its original name.
One day I foresee that we are going to come out of the shadow as Native people. We're going to show up; we're going to be in the spotlight. What I saw from the youth conference the last two days, I feel very strongly this is going to happen. We're going to have our own people doing our own work; and it's going to be more power on the Native side. We should be able to work equally and be recognized equally. For a long time, the Athabascans, the lower stateside American Indian, the Eskimos, were not recognized as equal to the rest of the United States' citizens. And I foresee there's going to be a change.
The mountain I was referring to, my grandfather,
my ancestors, has pointed at that mountain for many, many,
many years. And I think it's about time that we got full support
from Congress and United States to try to get that name changed
and have it back in the Athabascan name. I've flown down on
Alaska Airlines many times. They never say: "Denali." They
say:
"To your right, you'll see Mt. McKinley."
What I want to hear from now on is that:
"To your right, you'll see Denali, the original Athabascan name for this mountain, the highest moun -- the highest peak in the northern continent."
Those
are the things that I think are in the values of our
Athabascan people that we need to preserve.
I just want to close by saying that I will continue to do whatever I can to preserve
what I think we can with the help of people like you guys, and I want to
thank you for my time.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Well, thank you very much, I -- Robert. I think, again, I've heard many times about this Minto Camp, and I've heard very good things about it; and I think it has -- it's really interesting to follow what's going on there. I really support you very much in the initiative that you take in that. I see a level of, you know, commitment to want to educate young people and really address problems of alcoholism, and so on, through that effort. And I'm wondering, what was it in your own existence that inspired you to commit yourself to something like this? I'm asking the question in a way that maybe this could be some sort of a -- maybe an information to use to be able to help other communities to address it. But what is it that inspired you and the people who work with you to pursue this; to get it into existence; to not give up when you met with discouraging things, and people that didn't listen, things of this sort?
MR. CHARLIE: I ran into a lot of those obstacles, and --
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: I believe it.
MR. CHARLIE: -- and I -- being a leader helped to establish the Tanana Chiefs Conference, establish a lot of the things that are happening now, such as the Native Health -- the administration of the clinic in Fairbanks, and the different Native organizations; and what really took my attention is some of the things that should have been included in the Native Land Claims Settlement Act. And what I didn't like about the Act is when the word got around saying that you are going -- you'd be selling your aboriginal rights. To me, I have not sold my aboriginal rights; and I'm showing, by doing what I'm doing, that my aboriginal rights are still preserved.
And no matter what the stumbling blocks are, I still continue -- I get up and go. My wife knows that my mind is busy 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And I'm proud to sit here and defend my important decision about what I am doing.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: So you're saying that really the awareness of this provision in ANCSA was what really drove you to do these things?
MR. CHARLIE: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Yeah, okay.
MR. CHARLIE: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: I appreciate that. Father Elliott?
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Well, Robert, one thing that I think will be of comfort to you, and I think you already know it, that Hudson Stuck, Arch-deacon Stuck, who was the first to climb McKinley, --
MR. CHARLIE: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: -- will never -- would
never accept that name McKinley, and named his book "The Ascent of Denali." He
never called it McKinley.
Also, I believe Old Minto was -- you left
it originally to establish New Minto because of the danger
of flooding and the gradual washing away of Old Minto. How
much then is left of Old Minto to -- that you’re now using
as an historical site?
MR. CHARLIE: Well, I would say over 95 percent of Old Minto is still there. For some reason or another, it never got flooded as much as it used to. I don't know. I think there's something about Old Minto that has spiritual connection also.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: I imagine the church has gone down the river though. That was on the bank.
MR. CHARLIE: No, --
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: St. Barnabas.
MR. CHARLIE: No, that is -- I guess I don't know when you were there.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: '51.
MR. CHARLIE: 51? Well, since then, they moved it back.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Oh.
MR. CHARLIE: So it's quite a way away from falling in.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: And then, Robert, I rea -- or I've seen your Songs of the Minto People on cassette.
MR. CHARLIE: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Now, are you doing any more of that to -- not just for
your own people, but to let other villagers know what they can do to preserve
your heritage? Because you're preserving it on that cassette.
MR. CHARLIE: Uh-huh (affirmative). After
that footage, we put together a 50-minute Cultural Preservational
Memorial Potlatch, so that's -- so if you get to see that,
and title is "Hitting Sticks/Healing Heart." It's about a memorial
potlatch, and --
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Where's that available
from? I've tried to get "Songs of the Minto," but I never (laughing)
could get it from --
MR. CHARLIE: You can get a copy from the Minto Village Council.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Okay, Robert, -- let's see, is there any more comments? Martin?
COMMISSIONER MOORE: Robert, you and I are (indiscernible) apart. I'm way down at the mouth of the Yukon River; you're way, way in the Interior. What you're saying to preserve our culture and our heritage is so very important. Now, if we could only make the federal government and the state government recognize how important it is, it would be a better country for the -- for both people in the federal government, state government.
I think that the clergymen are starting to realize how honest and how sincere the Native people are. The Native person that respects his heritage and culture -- the Native person will never, in my opinion, the elder people you see, they're not going to go out there and abuse drugs, because they know and understand the culture. They' re not going to go out there and abuse alcohol. One thing, they'll never commit suicide, because of the traditional teaching. That's not part of their teaching. You and I know that. The elder person is -- you could put alcohol in here on this table. If they know their culture and their -- and they value their tradition, they're not -- it won't bother 'em one bit. That's what you and I want the federal government, the state government, the clergymen to understand, that our culture is very important for them, for us, and for everybody else.
And I appreciate your testimony, making a lot of us, again, realize that our
culture is very important for everyone around us; and if it's preserved,
we wouldn't see a. lot of these young women walking out there homeless, with
children with no fathers. If those children knew their culture, if we were
allowed to teach those in the school systems, I think a lot of that would
have been prevented today. Because the elder people have been taught those
things, and they could stay away from alcohol; they could stay away from
drugs; they could stay away from committing suicide
and other stuff.
I wish this Commission -- I'm part
of the Commission here, I certainly
would like to make the federal
government, state government, realize how
important our Native culture is. Even to
take care of our own judicial problems. Sometimes the federal
government gets stuck up with Constitutional issues, that
they' re unconstitutional when we want to do something for
ourselves. But I think they'll realize soon that it's best
for them to let us do some of the things ourselves. That's
the way I feel. I -- we're so far distance away, I want you
to share some of the concerns I have. I think they're the
same as yours in many cases. Robert, thank you for being here.
MR. CHARLIE: I want to just make one brief comment on another decision that I base the facts on in my own personal life. This -- we' re trying to talk about how could, we find the solution for this gap between our culture and the Western type, and that question is always coming up, no matter where we go. And I always use my own opinion and my own experience in trying to tell the kids, the young people how I feel, that I took this step to make it work.
I've been involved with good jobs all along in my life; and I learned to cope with the Western-type living, and I learned to preserve and use my culture. So, I could do my work here in the office or out there in the field, and I can go home and still know -- and do Native dancing and still can hear my people speak when they speak Athabascan; and I still listen to my brother when he makes speeches up in front of the crowd. And I have learned to find the boundaries on these two. There's a line between the two. Once you get those two together, then you'll be able to walk your own way with the help on both sides.
(Tape changed to Tape #4.)
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Robert, I said the last time I was in Minto was '51. My wife would kill me. We spent our honeymoon in Minto in '57.
(Laughter.)
MR. CHARLIE: Maybe you can come back to Old Minto next summer and --
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: I was in Minto -- the New Minto, but not the Old Minto. It was '57 I was in the Old Minto.
MR. CHARLIE: Come back to Old Minto.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Yeah, I'd love to.
MR. CHARLIE: You'll be among people from all over the world practically.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Robert, thank you very much for sharing these comments with us. Thank you very much.
MR. CHARLIE: Well, I waited a long time, you know, to get up here, so --
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: I know, and there's --
MR. CHARLIE: -- thank you very much,
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: -- still other people, I think, that are waiting. Let's see. What time is it getting to be?
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: It's about --
REPORTER: Lunch would be nice. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: (Laughing.) Yeah, I -- there are a number of other people on the list. I guess they could continue this afternoon.
MR. IRWIN: Either that, or we could reschedule them for this evening, or for Saturday morning.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: At the full Commission hearing?
(Pause.)
At the full Commission hearing this evening?
MR. IRWIN: Yeah. They can either testify tonight at the full Commission hearing or on Saturday the 24th.
MS. SHAWBACK: I'm leaving tomorrow night for Seattle, so I would like to testify as soon as possible (indiscernible -- away from microphone).
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: What's your name?
MS. SHAWBACK: Mary Shawback from King Salmon.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Okay.
MR. IRWIN: Would you be able to do it this evening?
MS. SHAWBACK: I just would be very short -- I just want to leave a statement about fishing down at Unalaska and around the Aleutian Chain there.
COMMISSIONER ELLIOTT: False Pass?
MR. IRWIN: It's you guy's call.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Would you be able to come back at 2 o'clock?
MS. SHAWBACK: Yeah, I could do that.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: I m just concerned about our recorder, who will have to continue on through --
MS. SHAWBACK: Oh, why don't you -- can I come back at 3:00? Have you got anything --
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: That would be fine, yeah. The hearings will continue, --
MS. SHAWBACK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: -- and I think it's necessary to give the lunch break.
REPORTER: Thank you.
MS. SHAWBACK: Yeah, I'd be --
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: It's not so much for us, 'cause we can -- we won't be continuing the hearings, but she will. So I would appreciate that if that's --
MS. SHAWBACK: Okay, I'll be back here at 3:00 then.
COMMISSIONER SEBESTA: Okay, thank you very much.
(Off record. )
***END OF PROCEEDINGS***
This document was ocr scanned. We have made every
attempt to keep the online document the same as the original,
including the recorder's original misspellings or typos.
